HOW SLEEP TRANSFORMS MENTAL HEALTH: Corinna Gethins’ Expert Tips

Guest: Corinna Gethins — sleep counsellor and Home Link Worker for Renfrewshire Council, lead on Sleep Action for Renfrewshire. Works with children, families and young people where barriers to education exist — and has found that sleep is almost always a factor.

Further information: Sleep Action website — link in the linktree

Note: Recorded on Paul's 44th birthday. Lee had a Mind Cake mug. Paul had a Biscoff biscuit. The Northern Noms cake went to Lee's house. These things happen.

Topics covered:

Why sleep matters more than we think

• Sleep is as important as diet and exercise — arguably more so — but consistently overlooked
• During sleep: growth hormones released, bone density increases, muscles strengthen, immune system repairs and strengthens, cuts and grazes heal
• Sleep deprivation increases likelihood of depression, anxiety and stress-related issues
• Memory storage: sleep-deprived people are more likely to store negative memories than positive ones — directly linking to mental health decline
• The Chernobyl disaster: investigators found fatigue was a significant contributing factor, with workers on 13-hour shifts making poor decisions

The vicious cycle

• Depression and anxiety cause poor sleep — but poor sleep also causes depression and anxiety
• The mechanism: stress produces cortisol (the awake/stress hormone). High cortisol suppresses melatonin (the sleep hormone). Less melatonin = harder to get to sleep and stay asleep
• This is why you can feel exhausted all day but wide awake at midnight

Melatonin and the pineal gland

• Melatonin is produced in the pineal gland — Corinna says this word on air and is visibly pleased with herself
• Production is triggered by darkness — light receptors in your eyes signal the brain to produce melatonin as it gets dark
• Blue light from screens suppresses this production, which is why phone use before bed makes it harder to sleep even when you're exhausted

Sleep cycles

• We go through approximately 5 sleep cycles per night
• REM sleep (Rapid Eye Movement): lighter sleep, where dreams occur and memories are consolidated
• Non-REM sleep: deeper sleep, where cell repair and renewal happens. Also where sleepwalking and night terrors occur
• Missing sleep cycles disrupts the whole system — hence feeling awful after an interrupted night even if you were technically in bed for hours

Circadian rhythm and zeitgebers

• Your body clock — the circadian rhythm — is set by zeitgebers (Corinna says this word twice because it's excellent)
• Most potent zeitgeber: light. Get daylight early in the morning to feel alert; use dim lighting in the evening to encourage melatonin
• Other zeitgebers: temperature, meal times, exercise timing
• Exercise in the evening is fine — just not immediately before bed
• Consistency is everything: regular meal times and wake times help set the clock
• Humans are the only species that deliberately alters their sleep patterns

Sleep hours by age

• Age 18-25: 7-9 hours (Paul and Lee acknowledge they are not in this bracket)
• Age 26+: 7-8 hours consistently every night
• Weekend lie-ins: create a jet lag effect that can make the rest of the week worse. Consistency trumps catch-up

Animals and sleep

• Giraffe: 2 hours only — lying down makes them vulnerable to predators, so they sleep standing up in short bursts
• Dolphin: sleeps with half its brain at a time (roughly 4 hours per hemisphere) — needs one eye on predators and must surface for air
• Cat: 13 hours — polyphasic napper
• Bat: 19 hours — few predators, safe roosting spots, and one very specific adversary who shall remain nameless

The wind down hour

• Most important recommendation: no screens for the hour before bed
• Use that hour to reduce cortisol and encourage melatonin — bath, reading, gentle music, whatever works for you
• Screen night mode on phones is a good trigger reminder, but switching it off defeats the purpose
• Sleep aids: pillow sprays, sleep stories, weighted blankets — trial and error, different things work for different people. Lavender spray would give Corinna a sore throat. If it works for you, do it

Post-episode:

• Lee immediately followed Corinna's advice and had a great night's sleep
• Paul looked like he hadn't slept despite it being his birthday
• Lee opened the blind first thing in the morning — the cortisol kicked in immediately

Lee's 50th birthday aftermath — what Scotland does when you turn 50:

• Day 1: bowel cancer screening kit arrives in the post (Lee goes for these anyway as his dad died of bowel cancer)
• Day 2: email from Scottish Widows saying his pension isn't looking great and he has 15 years until retirement
• Solution: Google people born on 6th December. Susie Wolf (racing driver, wife of Toto Wolf), Henry VI (rubbish king, prone to mental illness), Andrew Flintoff, Tim Cahill

Famous deaths on 6th December:

• Roy Orbison — Paul guesses 1990. Wrong. 1988
• Grouty from Porridge (Peter Vaughan) — also in Game of Thrones, season 6, episode 6, about 4 minutes in. Don't blink

New Year challenge announced:

• 10,000 steps a day in January (roughly 5 miles — equivalent of Edinburgh to Middlesbrough over the month)
• Incorporating 5K runs where possible
• Lee wants to get involved with Soulful Sundays — yoga/Pilates on the beach at Portobello followed by cold water swimming

Shout outs:

• Rose — poet and author whose work comes from mental health experiences. Upcoming guest teased
• Adrienne — old friend of Lee's, upcoming guest
• Sarah Dean (nee Hearn) — listens on her drive to patients. Married Dean
• Jenny and Lisa — thank you for listening

Listener geography — early days: UK, Australia, New Zealand, United States, Germany, UAE, Bahrain, Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Israel, Canada, Ireland, Mexico. The mysterious Norwegian listener remains unidentified. The one Mexican listener may or may not have also been the Norwegian listener — a well-travelled individual on a round-the-world ticket remains the most plausible theory

Also this episode:

• Northern Noms Bakery — Kay from KC Holistics' friend, who sent cake after enjoying the podcast. The cake went to Lee's house. Paul had a Biscoff biscuit. This is being held over Paul indefinitely
• Cooker Gate — Paul's oven saga reaches resolution via a six-tweet rant at a nameless company, resulting in a £25 refund and a cooker still in the back garden under snow
• Mind Cake fan club floated — membership card, badge, possibly a hairy Mad Ramp badge. Waiting on more than two emails before the admin becomes viable
• Elmo Pickles teased for the Boxing Day Christmas quiz episode. He's cycling past and might pop in for the last question

Referenced:

• Sleep Action — Renfrewshire Council sleep support programme. Website linked in linktree
• Soulful Sundays — yoga/Pilates on the beach, Portobello, Edinburgh. Cold water swimming included
• Northern Noms Bakery — Kay from KC Holistics' connection. Sends cake
• MN8 — 90s boy band. Lee references them. Paul is thrown by this
• The Travelling Wilburys — Roy Orbison, George Harrison, Jeff Lynne, Tom Petty, Bob Dylan. Paul is a travelling Wilbury in the sense that he's always somewhere else