From Burnout to Balance: What Happens When the Job You Love Starts Breaking You

Another Slice features Sarah from the Nest. Hello, mindcakers

Hello, mindcakers, and welcome to Another Slice, where this week we are joined by the wonderful Sarah from the Nest. Hello, Sarah. Hello, how are you?

I'm good, thank you. How are you?

I'm very good, yes. she's slightly aggrieved that I've got 20 questions to ask, but as we know from previous episodes with Paul, I come with all my questions and then we go off a tangent.

You spent 15 years with Oxfam working on poverty and climate change

So the first question I'm going to ask you is, you spent 15 years with Oxfam, what did your day to day look like? And, what parts of the work lit you up the most?

So, yeah, well, 13 years, two years doing some other stuff before that, but 15 years in the sector and I had different jobs throughout that time. So I started off as a campaigner. My job title was campaigner, which was amazing when I discovered that was actually a job you could do because that was something I loved to do and I didn't know it was a job. So I started off as a campaigner and that job involved everything from, recruiting and managing volunteers for festivals to being on the news to being in parliament, lobbying, MSPs, writing campaign materials, organising mass demos, all sorts of. It was like a taster of absolutely everything you could then go on to do, which was incredible. As I moved into other roles, I moved from a Scotland focused role into a UK role to global facing role. So that changed to be involving working with people from different countries, a bit more travel, which was, which was great. But yeah, the main kind of part of my role, I guess was to take the voices of people impacted by poverty and particularly climate change, which was what I worked for most of that time on, and translate their message back to the public to encourage people to take action, whether that be political action, asking governments to do more, to do better, in this country and other countries and also private sector. So kind of moving away from the idea that as individuals we hold all the power because, yeah, we can turn our lights off and we can do our recycling, but the real power lies with big business and governments.

Yes. I don't want to preempt later bits, but that sounds amazing but at the same time quite depressing because I can put my Coke cans in the, recycling. But yeah.

When I became a parent, things changed at work, says M.

Anyway, when did you first notice something wasn't right and that the work that you loved was taking a toll?

M. That's a good question because I think it probably was a bit of a slow burner and I didn't realise until I stopped necessarily. So I think also probably When I became a parent, things changed. So I think when I joined the organisation, I was 24, I think I was single at the time. I didn't have any other commitments. It just could throw my full self into my work and it became the most important thing that I did. That was, that was great, that was fine. And I had a brilliant time doing that, I think. Getting older roles CH As I became more senior within the organisation as well, the kind of work you do changes as well. So actually less of that engagement with people on the ground, more internal bureaucracy, more sign off procedures, less, less kind of feeling like you're really making a difference weirdly. But yeah, I think definitely becoming a parent shifted that. I was working in a role where I was travelling a lot. So I was going not necessarily exotic places, but mainly Oxford. so spending a week, a month in Oxford, which is quite hard when you've got a baby at home. Yes. And just that amount of travel, you know, because I was working on climate change, we weren't allowed to fly anywhere. So I would spend. It's a long cycle, long cycle dogs. So I'd be spending my Sunday afternoon and evening on a train away from my family to then be working and then come back. And so that, yeah, all quite long. I think this sort of crunch point happened when we. Well, the beginning of 2020 m and I never set New Year resolutions. I don't really believe in New Year's resolutions, but I do set intentions so things to things to start rather than things to stop, if that makes sense. So my intention at the beginning of 2020, I wasn't totally clear what it was, but I knew something needed to change, change. And so I said to myself, this is the year that I'm going to do something different. I'm going to change things up because this isn't working for me anymore the way it is. Two months later or three months later probably, we went into global lockdown. And yeah, and everything changed for M. Everybody and I, you know, things shifted. I was, we went from, you know, yeah, juggling travelling and working and childcare and whatever else to my husband and I both working at home with a two year old and going, this is hard. And there was a point where the organisation asked, said we need to put a third of the workforce on furlough. And I immediately went, I'll go. Put my hand up and said I'll go because this is really hard. and so I went on furlough and initially I think it was meant to be Three months, yes. And about a month into that period, I had a bit of a crash where I just. My body just kind of went blah. I don't really know how to describe it, but it was like. Because I'd stopped, so I'd stopped doing what I was doing. I'd stopped having the daily bombardment of these horrific storeys that I was working with. I'd stopped experiencing the lack of action from. From decision makers, which is really disheartening when you've worked on the same issue for 12, 13 years and you've seen very little change happen. And, yeah, I just had stopped. The world had stopped. Everyone has stopped doing anything. And I. And I realised how exhausted and burnt out I was, from that. And I. And although a couple of months previously I'd said, you know, I'm going to make this decision, I'm going to. Something's got to shift. I didn't know what it was. But getting that opportunity, although that whole period of time was horrific for so many people, for me it brought me clarity that I couldn't continue doing that anymore. I couldn't go back to that. And so it was actually quite a positive thing for me in that moment to get that time away and to see how it would feel to not do that anymore and have time with my daughter and, yeah, just step away and see how that felt. Because there's not many opportunities you get like that to test not doing the thing that you've been doing for so long.

But, from what you're saying, then, basically, did you manifest Covid? Is that what we're saying?

I hope not.

Are we. Are we parking that at your door?

I don't know if I can take full responsibility for that, but. But yeah, it brought me something, It brought me something positive and I'm really aware that it brought a lot of people some really awful times, but it gave me an opportunity that I wouldn't have otherwise had.

Identity is a big theme on Mindcake after leaving Oxfam

Identity is a big theme on Mindcake, and how tied up in your job was your sense of self during those Oxfam activism years. And I think you've kind of touched on how that felt, stepping away.

Yeah, identity was the thing I struggled with most coming out of that. I don't think I'd realised how much of my identity was wrapped up in what I did. And it's now something I'm really aware of, not doing that. And when I'm working with coaching clients, it's something we talk about a lot as well, because I've had that experience now. But what you do for most people, I think, is a huge part of their identity. It's often the first question we ask people when we meet someone new. You say, well, what do you do? And when I said, I'm a global campaign manager for Oxfam, people would be like, wow, that's incredible. Oh, I'd love to do that. That must be amazing. That must be so rewarding. That must be this. That must be. And it. What, you know, it was. And I don't want to take away from that. I had the most incredible experiences. I did some amazing things that I'm so super grateful for that have shaped me as a person. and have shaped my life to this point and beyond to what I'm doing now. But, yeah, what. What you do. And I think particularly when you do jobs like that, because I think they're more than jobs. Yeah, it's not just work. It's. You do these kind of jobs because you passionately care about issues. For me, it's people. I really care about people. And, the main driver for me and everything that I do and what I still do is that I want to be doing something that improves the lives of other people. And, yeah, so that was a huge part of my identity, and that was something I really struggled with when I came out of that space, because I suddenly was like, oh, I don't know who I am anymore.

Hence the crash.

Hence the crash, probably. Yeah. And just that feeling of being really quite lost and being like, what the hell am I going to do next? I know that I can't continue doing that, but I still really care about that. It wasn't, you know, there was a. There was a real kind of guilt stepping away from that because I always heard how many, you know, people would always. I'd love to be able to do something like that. And I'd be like, I have this and I'm walking away from it. But, yeah, just understanding that that wasn't the way I was going to do that anymore. and what I did do, there was a weird. There was a weird moment of universal input, possibly where I was having a day where I was particularly like, oh, what? What am I doing? What am I going to do now? We were still deep in the COVID trenches, but I was like, what? At some point, I'm going to have to decide what I'm doing next. And I was lucky that I had. I ended up with six months of furlough. And then for the first time ever, after, I think, 10 restructures over 13 years. Finally there was an offer of voluntary redundancy. and I immediately knew that that's what I was going to do. So I was in a position where I had money to then reinvest in myself and my future. And so one of the things I wanted to do was do some coaching for myself. And I'd seen on Instagram an organisation that I follow had put out a post saying, we've got this whole cohort of new coaches, they're all offering free six week sessions to get started. If you're interested, sign up. So I was like, brilliant, this is for me. So I signed up and then I got a message back saying, we have been inundated. We have far too many people. we'll put your name on a list but you know, the chances are we'll probably never get to you. So weeks passed after that and as I said, I was having a day where I was particularly like, oh man, what? You know, I'm feeling really lost now, like I don't know where I'm going to go next. And feeling quite scared by that. Like it was, it was a really weird sensation. I think I. Because it was the place where I've really only worked as a grown up. Like I'd grown up there, I'd been through so many big life changes and experiences and that was the constant that was with me all the time. And I felt quite lost. And anyway, was having this day and I got a message, an email came into my phone and I looked at it and it was from a woman called Emma. And she said, I've just randomly picked your name off a list. Would you still like some coaching?

Oh really?

And I said, yes, please, please, I would really like to coach him. And I spent the next six weeks working with her and it was a game changer for me because it, it helped me just calm down all the stresses. It turned that fear into what felt like bravery instead. Like being brave enough to make that choice and say, no, this isn't right for me anymore. And. Yeah, set a path to do something new.

So that was obviously a big turning point.

NEST is the home of body and mind restoration

So for people who don't know the nest, how do you describe what you do now?

The short answer is the home of body and mind restoration.

Like it?

Okay, that's my little catch line. however, the roots of the nest are what I was saying before, which is that what motivates me in life, in work is, is to be doing something that improves the lives of other people. Now for A long time I thought the only way I could do that was to be working for a global ngo. That's actually not true. Turns out, and now what I offer. So the closest thing I'm offering to that work, I guess, is the coaching work that I do. So I offer coaching, I offer yoga and I offer massage. Those are the three kind of main elements of the NEST at the moment.

The Holy Trinity.

The Holy Trinity. And the coaching part came from. Well, I did. I did peer coaching when I was still in Oxfam and I loved it. And actually one of the things I loved the most about my roles were managing teams and people. I really love to support and develop people. And, that was something I wanted to continue doing when I came out. And the back of my coaching experience was that I actually wanted to become a coach as well. So the coaching work that I do, and I didn't necessarily deliberately go out to have the niche that I have, but the 99% of the people I've worked with over the last four, five years have been, are, me five or six years ago. So they are mainly women. They're not, not completely women. I've worked with a couple of men, but mainly women between 35 and 45 working in the third sector. A lot of them for. For nos. A lot of them in the climate movement.

Yes.

Who are juggling life, work, kids often, and feeling all the same things I was feeling in that space. So feeling quite burnt out, feeling disillusioned, feeling like everything's super hard, that the sector is hard, that getting change to happen is hard, and they've been plugging away at it for years and years and they're becoming exhausted about it and they're becoming burnt out. And that really worries me because if everyone who's doing these super important jobs does what I do, does what I did, and say, I can't do this anymore, we're screwed. Like, we have to have people in those jobs. These are super important jobs. I've also worked with people in the nhs. I've also worked with teachers. Okay. These are like some of the most important jobs that we have and people are broken by them. And that's not okay because these jobs are so important and we have to have good people in these jobs and if good people will away from them, we're in trouble. So what I try and do now is work with people to keep them in that work.

They can't all become life coaches.

They can't all become coaches. No, no, that would not be good. For me not be good for my business. But we need people in these jobs, right? So I work with people now to support them to stay in those important jobs and stay well being in those important jobs. So I work with them through any of the issues they're currently facing. So some people come to me and they're like, I can't do this anymore. I need to go and do something else. But I don't know what that is. Some people say, I really still want to do this, but I'm feeling quite broken. so sometimes for me, it's about supporting people to stay in the roles that they're in, but make changes that mean that they're mentally and physically well and not heading towards becoming burnt out. and some people have made that decision that they can't do it anymore and they're moving out of that space and it's how they can continue. Like what I was saying, most people are in that because they want to be changing things for the better. that they can still be doing that, but maybe in a job that doesn't affect them in the same way. So some people are really good at compartmentalising things, and some people are not. I can't do that. I feel everything. I get emotional about everything. Whether that's positive, whether, you know, something happy, something sad, whether I'm passionate, angry, whatever, it comes out in quite an emotional way. That's the case for a lot of people that I've worked with. Quite sensitive, empathetic people who often find themselves doing those kind of jobs because that's what you're drawn to. so many people in those sectors find it really hard to compartmentalise and box off some of that stuff and just allow them to just do the job without being so impacted by it. so those are the kind of issues I'm working with people on. And it's the same stuff that comes up again and again. So.

And you've been there, and I've been there.

So that's why I think some of the people that have come to me have come to me, most people in all of the work that I do, which I feel really privileged about, actually, most people come to me through word of mouth. So they come because they have a colleague or an ex colleague who's worked with me in the past. They've said, oh, you know, she'll be good for that. or they've come and done coaching. And then, you know, I've had a whole stream of friends who've come, or colleagues who've come on the back of one of them having done coaching and then the next one comes and then the next one comes. And that's really lovely because it shows to me that they've actually really got something out and they want that for their friends and their colleagues.

It's the best recommendation, right?

Yeah, absolutely. and I feel really lucky to have that. But what it's done for me is allow me to still feel like I'm contributing to that sector without being in the sector that you're keeping that sector running. Oh yeah. Single handedly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that for me is really important because one thing I didn't want was to completely cut myself off from that sector because it was so important to me. And it's not. I haven't walked away from it because I don't care anymore. I still care deeply about the issues. I just couldn't do it in that way anymore. So to be able to support people to stay in that sector, and be well and do their great work without burning out is. Yeah. A real privilege.

You became anxious about travelling on trains, which is different from air travel

What are the most common lies burnout tells people? Because people are, like you say, in that role are empathetic and they have a certain personality. And do you think that some of them. Because they obviously feel that the role is very, very important, which it is that they can't extricate themselves from or they can't stop doing that. It's almost like a guilt of. And I wonder how you felt. I mean it's slightly different because you, you had a catalyst for good or for bad of COVID. But back in the real world. We don't have that. So you just kind of plod on.

Yeah. So I think you said guilt there. Like, I think I definitely felt guilt. That is definitely something I felt. And I do wonder sometimes, had it not been for that catalyst of COVID would I still. Would I still be doing it? And therefore what kind of cond. Condition would I be in now? Because what I was feeling was like I was exhausted. I had increasing anxiety about things that were totally random. But like, like I used to. I. I became really anxious about being on trains. I was spending like loads of time on trains but I was like suddenly really anxious about travelling on trains and being in tunnels and like there was all this weird stuff I'd never experienced before that I was.

Sorry, just. When you say being on trains.

Yeah.

Do you mean train crashes or being stuck on a train? No, I think people wearing masks or.

No, I think it was. I'm gonna make myself sound a bit bonkers now, but please do. I know that's what we're. That's what we're here for, isn't it? So I've realised that I have a thing about not being able to get off or out of places or things.

Okay, interesting.

So, like being on a train, if I suddenly decided I wanted to get off, you can't get off the next stop, right? Worse for air travel.

Worse for air travel, yeah.

When I was told I was going to Indonesia, I did it and I did it on my own and it was fine. But there was things like that that just were coming up. I'd never experienced before. I'd never really been an anxious person. And suddenly there was all these weird things happening. Like, what if we go in that tunnel and the train stops? Yeah, like what, what if we go to tunnel, the train stops, it's going to be fine. We might be there for a while and then will come out the other side. But all these weird things. And I was commuting in on the train to the office every day, so I was having this anxiety every morning that was happening. I was travelling up and down to Oxford on trains. So I would have it regularly in that sense.

I'm going to jump in there because it's interesting you say that. That's just weird. I'm thinking, right, I do that.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I had anxiety when I was in India because they've got bars on the windows of the train. She couldn't even get out the window. And in the olden days, I remember. I remember actually jumped from a moving train once.

You did, yeah.

We won't go into why, but you could. In the olden days, you could down the window yourself and lean out and open the door. And you could just open the door, but you're right in there. So automated now that you can't get out. If it makes you feel any better, I do have. I think you have to have an exit plan. It'd be interesting to see how many lists resonate with this or whether it's just me. But. But if I go to like a hotel or if I'm in a different place, I will need to know, right, so if there's a fire in the corridor, my best way of exiting this room is here or through this window or what's the. Is the. Is there a restrictor on the window or are, there bed sheets that I could tie if I'm on an upper floor? I mean, I don't think about it. All the time. I'm just saying, like, in our house, I know what the strategy is for the kit. Getting the kids out and me and my wife out, depending on where something might happen.

Yeah.

So just me. Right. We'll pass you back. Anyways, it's not all about me.

No, that's good. It makes me feel better. But. And. But, you know, I've talked about this to other people and it's definitely something that people experience. But, yeah, there was things like that happening that were a bit bizarre. And I actually remember going to a meeting. I think I was in Utrecht in the Netherlands, and it was a big global, organisational kind of planning session, I think. And I just felt like I wasn't there. I was just like. I don't know, just felt really vacant and like, I just couldn't participate. And m. I remember one of my colleagues sort of leaned into me at one point and he went, are you okay? And, you know when someone asks you if you're okay and you're not okay, but you can't really deal with it at that exact moment because you're in the middle of a global meeting. But it. It set something off of me. And I remember, like. But I would love going.

I loved going to these global meetings. And it was so lovely meeting up people in person

I loved going to these global meetings. I would see colleagues that I worked with from all over the world. I spent, you know, time on video or Skype calls, as we used at that point. But, like. And it was so lovely meeting up people in person. And we'd go out and we'd have dinner and we'd do karaoke and we'd go to random places and it was. It was lovely. And I remember on m. That particular trip, I couldn't do it. Like, I went back to my room and I cried for, like, forever. And I think I phoned my partner was like this. I don't. I can't. I don't know if I can be here. I don't know. And I'd never. I'd never been like that before. And it was really. I found it quite shocking because I think, like, you know, you said when you came in, you were like, oh, I don't know why you're nervous. Like, you always seem really confident. Yeah. And I think people always look at me and they're like, oh, she's confident, she's cool. You know, she doesn't get flapped about stuff. But we all do, right, M. We all do at points. And I've always found that difficult because people have always been surprised if I've said, actually, I Am struggling a bit or I am finding that hard. They're like, oh, you. But you're fine. You're always fine. and m. That's been a thing since I've been. Since I was a teenager. I remember people saying that to me as a teenager. So yeah, I do remember that particular meeting and thinking, this isn't right. This isn't me, this isn't right. Something's not quite right here. And it, you know, I'm not saying it was all just my job and my work. It was probably a combination of things. But yeah, there were things like that that were building and changing that were making me think this isn't really working for me and I don't want to live like that. I don't want to feel like that.

what I was gonna say was I've got some hard hitting questions at the end, but I've just thought of another one.

What strengths did you carry over from Oxfam into coaching

What is your go to karaoke tune?

Oh, I haven't done a lot of karaoke but it's normally like a Spice Girls or All Saints number. I do have a memory of my friend Sarah and I standing on a pool table in our student union singing. Was it Tattoo? All the things she said.

Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, I do remember, yeah. All the things you said. All the things you said. Running through my head. Running through my head.

If you do want karaoke storeys. My favourite karaoke moment was on the trip to Indonesia, which was again, another big global planning session. And we went to Happy Puppy Karaoke bar.

Sounds nice.

And we booked a private room. Now this was a collection of colleagues from quite junior to quite senior colleagues all together in this one karaoke room. And we had, yeah, this private room, massive screen, any songs you could possibly get access to. And it was something, it was wild. We saw people in a whole new light.

I have to imagine you did. Yeah. Okay. People often underestimate the skills they build in their day job. Transferable skills. What strengths did you carry over from Oxfam into coaching? So.

I think resilience, I feel like maybe didn't sound quite so resilient in your last question.

Just went to Indonesia and Sanctum.

There's a lot of resilience to be built for. Working in those kind of environments and being constantly bombarded with, with horrific, difficult storeys and images and, and situations that people are in and trying to make that better but not making that happen quickly enough. So, yeah, definitely resilience. Definitely. for me something that's been really valuable has been the opportunity to Work with people from all over the world, different cultures, different backgrounds. That is something you can take into anything. What else? I think empathy, compassion. I refer to myself as a compassionate coach. There are some hardcore coaches out there that will like, whip you into shape. That's not my style at all. I refer to myself as being a compassionate coach. I think it. Well, certainly people I've been working with, what they need. So, yeah, lots of, lots of things, I think. Yeah, it was like people management.

Yeah.

Understanding topics like human rights, like climate change, like what happens in terms of decision making, you know, governments, policies, businesses, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Can be taken across and what. As we've touched on before, I think what it means is I can really empathise because I've been through that and I have the experiences I've had, I can really empathise with the people I'm coaching. I know exactly where they're at and they really appreciate that. I think.

You openly say you still get anxious and deal with imposter syndrome

One thing I love on your website, you openly say that you still get anxious and deal with imposter syndrome. How do you approach those moments now compared with before?

M. So I think I have more tools now. One thing I will say is that I don't. Imposter syndrome was something I felt a lot in my previous career whilst at Oxford.

Yeah, right.

I often felt like I was going to get found out. That they were going to be like, oh, really? How? What? Why is she there? What she did? And that's like a really unpleasant feeling. It really impacts your confidence, looking over your shoulder, just thinking like, oh, everyone else is better than me. They're all smarter than me. I've always worried that I'm not, like, academically smart enough. Like, I worked with some really, really, really academically brilliant people and I didn't need to. I wasn't a policy expert. I didn't need to be. I needed to be able to engage with people and I needed to be able to tell storeys. I didn't need to know. I needed to translate complex policy information into people friendly information that I can do. But yeah, it could be really intimidating working with some really incredibly intelligent people. But yeah, I think especially as I kind of progressed up the ladder and, became in a role where your job title is a global campaign manager and still kind of going, at some point somebody's gonna be like, tap you on the shoulder. Sorry, it's not for you. yeah, it can be really debilitating and it can really affect your confidence. But I had that conversation with so many women. And I'm going to say women because I didn't experience it with any male colleagues, but I did have that conversation. Of female colleagues, and I did some mentoring and I did coaching internally, and it was. It was an issue that came up.

So what are the tools?

So I think now, I think when you're doing the right thing, it feels really different. So now, actually, yeah, I have moments of imposter syndrome. Like today, like when you were like, oh, you want to be on a podcast? Like. How is this interesting enough to be on a podcast? but you've assumed, you've assured me.

you're okay now.

We settled in once you get me chatting. So, yeah, I feel different now that I feel like I'm doing what I should be doing now, and that's given me confidence. I've. I rarely actually feel that now doing what I'm doing. Which sounds crazy because I might stand up in front of a yoga class of 20 people and you think that'd be exactly the kind of moment we'd be like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing, but actually, I don't feel it in that space and I don't feel it when I'm coaching. I feel like I'm exactly where I'm meant to be and I'm doing what I need to be doing. However, if it creeps in, I use my yoga, I use my breath work practises, I use all the tools that I teach other people about building the confidence about positive mantra. So fake it till you make it. I, use it as an example in a yoga class, if we're practising balance. If someone say, like, oh, I'm really balancing, I'm like, well, you're not going to be able to do it if you keep telling yourself you can't do something or you're bad at something. Your mind will continually give you that narrative. If you tell yourself, I am confident, I'm great at this, I am strong, I can balance whatever it is you're.

Doing, you could be like a man.

You said it. No. What'S that quote? Was it present yourself like a mediocre with the confidence of a mediocre white man.

Yeah.

Gets you through.

Gets you through it. Yeah. but yeah, using that positive mindset and mantra is hugely powerful. And I work with a lot of children and young people as well, and that's really important for them. there's a point where kids suddenly lose the confidence they have when they're little and actually Putting that back into them is really important. But yeah, that is definitely one of the most powerful tools.

What role does nature play in keeping you grounded in yoga

M. You talk about Scotland's hills, lochs and forests, nourishing your soul. What role does nature play in keeping you grounded?

Yeah, I've been sniffing about in the website, aren't you?

Yep. also sorry to add a two part question. Cold water, swimming, enlightenment, or borderline madness?

Okay. So nature for me is essential. For my well being, for my mental health, for my physical health. I feel so much better. If I get outside, even if I just go for a walk, that's fine. It doesn't need to be anything mega. Like, it doesn't need to be up a hill. It could just be a walk around the streets of the village. It's fine. but getting outside and moving my body are like the most important things for me in terms of feeling good. I can't. I can't spend a day just sitting inside. It doesn't work. It doesn't work for me. So, yes, hills or not hills, just being outside, in or near water or on water. So water for me is like a, water's my, my element that I tap into.

Okay.

You like this?

Yeah.

We've probably had this chat before. so the water element is super important for me. I used to be a swimmer. Used to be a competitive swimmer.

Did you?

We have had this GB team for three years. Just, just throw that in. But water, has been something that's again, being another kind of constant through my life. So I grew up in the northeast of Scotland, near the Murray Firth. The sea, the beaches, glorious. Was always part of my childhood growing up. But further from the sea here. But we have the lochs, which are wonderful. I love to get in water, to get on water, on my paddleboard, to be near the water even. Don't even need to be in it, just by the banks of a lock. I'm delighted just to be able to see water, to feel it, to hear it. The water element. Because when I teach yoga, I teach based on the elements. The water element is the element that helps us to let go of control. So we think back to the train scenario. That's all about control and not having control of a certain situation. So for me, I come back to the water element because it is the element that allows us to. Reminds us to go with the flow, to let go of control, and to trust the process. So I come back to that again and again and again. I even have a little water element tattoo on my arm. To remind me and Weirdly, when it came to doing my yoga teaching exam, we all picked out of a hat the element that we were going to teach for exam. And I knew well in advance I was going to pull out the water element and I did. And so I even got to teach it for my, for my yoga exam. so water particularly is really important.

Sarah says coaching can make life changing decisions for people

What was your event. When I was a swimmer? Yeah, 100 metre breaststroke.

Was it? Yeah, I was just to, hold on my anecdotes. I was, the best swimmer in a cub group anyway. I was the best swimmer. Right. And they put me into. I was like miles at breaststroke was my stroke, put me in. I was miles ahead of anybody else. They put me into the county championships. Of all the other cub things. The problem was you had to pick two strokes. you couldn't just do the one. So I think I did backstroke, which I was awful at, because I wasn't any good at anything else other than breaststroke. So I did, I did breaststroke first and I think it was, I think it was 100 metres and. I was quite confident going in and I was last by, by half a length. I got absolutely. And I came out and cried I think, as a small child. so that's my storey. So similar. We've got something else we've got in common. We're both swimmers. Yes. No, no, in my group, yes. In the county, very much not. and then I of course had the humiliation of doing the event that I wasn't actually very good at the backstroke, which was, Yeah, I mean, I'm over it, clearly. I mean, yeah, I'm over it, but yeah, both very good swimmers. So something else we've got in common. Had you finished, by the way?

Yeah.

What were we talking about? I can't remember. Nature swimming. Yes. You go for a dunk. If someone is listening and feeling stuck, burnt out or ashamed of wanting change, what's your message to them?

I think my message is be brave. Turn that fear into bravery. That's. That was the big turning point for me when I went from feeling scared to feeling brave. And yeah, there are processes, there are people, there are things that you can do that can help you through that. Like journey. Like me. It doesn't have to be me, but coaching is. Coaching is really magic. Like it really, really is. And. For me, being on this side, I've been on both sides of it. I've also recently done some coaching for myself as well. Being kind of five years into this new journey, I've had A little cheque in to just cheque that I'm where I want to be in.

Please tell me you talk to yourself. How do you think you're getting along?

Well, you do start to coach yourself and I do see that even with clients I've worked with over a period of weeks, they start to ask themselves the important questions. So you do start to do that. But no, I didn't coach myself. I did coach with someone else. But watching people grow in confidence and make decisions about their future is really powerful and that process I think can be really magical. Yeah. someone can come in feeling really stuck and some people come in and they've got a vision but they don't know how to execute it. Some people come in, they're like, I don't even know what my vision is. And we start there. And the beauty of coaching is you start from exactly where you are in that moment. So we don't spend ages digging back into the past. Like sometimes it comes up, but we start from exactly where you are now. And I work, I support them to work towards where they want to be. And that is, yeah, it is a really magic process and people can come out of that and make some sometimes terrifying for me quite life changing decisions and that you know about all sorts of things from their career to their relationships to their whatever and you know, I haven't heard any terrible feedback about things that have gone wrong but all positive storeys so far. But yeah, people can make some really big life changing decisions in a matter of weeks. I did.

And you know. And if it all goes tits up, you say, well, Sarah suggested I should maybe give it a go. So you know. But all good so far.

All good so far.

Good.

What's one belief you used to have about yourself that you've outgrown

Okay. What's one belief you used to have about yourself that you've now outgrown?

Oh, that's deep. M. So I think that I wasn't good enough.

Yeah.

and that's something that's come up a few times. And if I can throw in a firewalk experience. That was something that came up for me. M then that I didn't know was going to. So for anyone that's done a firewalk or not done a firewalk, sometimes the pre practise to that is breaking an arrow in your with your throat.

Have we. Transported to another. Am I dreaming this?