How An Ewok Saved My Life

Omar Hilmi has arguably slit more throats in Glasgow than anybody else

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, mind cakers, it's been a long time in the. In the making, but he's finally here. Today we have the pleasure of chatting to a man who has arguably slit more throats in Glasgow than anybody else. It's Mr. Omar Hilmi. How are you, sir?

>> Omar Hilmi: I'm absolutely fine. And, yeah, interesting accolade. I mean, possibly true, but, yeah, not one I'd want to spread around too much.

>> Lee Crontpon: No, no, but if you're going to have the accolade, then Glasgow is a pretty good city to have it in, I'd say.

>> Omar Hilmi: This is true. Hopefully all in a good cause then.

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, there's. There's the place to start.

Magma remembers the moment you told him he had six months to live

So you are the man who told me that I had six months to live. How much, how much of that conversation do you remember?

>> Omar Hilmi: I remember the look on your face. you were absolutely poleaxed. I've got a certain policy with these things, is that you're best to get the worst news out in the open from the very beginning. Yeah, I don't try and honey things too much because it's not fair. The last thing you want to hear is, oh, something's going to go well, and then if it doesn't go as well as you're hoping, then that feels as if the world's falling in on you.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: So I remember the room we were in. I remember you were sitting down. I remember telling you, and I remember the people that were around at the time. And, yeah, it's never an easy conversation. The person who it's worse for is, of course, you or the patient. But you deserve honesty. And there's no point in me trying to make my life easy by lying to you about it at that point. I remember the occasion well. And you've proved me wrong. You've proved me to be a complete liar.

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, it was particularly odd because we were still in lockdown.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yes.

>> Lee Crontpon: So me and Gemma still had masks on.

>> Lee Crontpon: And my overriding memory of that was seeing Gemma's eyes. When you said that I had to come into surgery on the Monday, more surgeries. I'd had my first surgery and you said, you've got to come in on, oh, you've got to come in on Monday. We're gonna COVID test you. But quite frankly, it doesn't really matter whether you're positive or not. If you're positive, my team will just have to take extra precautions. You're coming on a Monday. And I remember Gemma, kind of going, oh, so there's kind of. There's Hope that we can do something here. And I remember you went knee to knee to her and said, no, no, you. I think you've misunderstood what I've said here. And I just remember the look in Gemma's eyes. Because we're all wearing masks, you could only see each other's eyes. I mean, I don't know how long it was until I saw your face.

>> Omar Hilmi: I think it was about six months. Because I remember when you did first see my face, it was. Oh, so that's what you look like.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah, Yeah. I didn't recognise you. But I do know, and I have said to this before, that your. Your eyes, if you like, and it's. It's nothing personal, but it was the first few weeks when I saw your face or what I could see of your face, it had the reaction that I was, like, physically sick because I made. I made the association between that news and. And those eyes. And I just wondered you. Do you get that a lot?

>> Omar Hilmi: not from patients from my family. I mean, when my kids were younger, they used to say that I had angry eyes and they knew when things were going wrong because suddenly, there would be an expression and it was the eyes that gave it. So, it's possibly something like that.

>> Lee Crontpon: Dad eyes.

>> Omar Hilmi: yeah.

>> Lee Crontpon: I want to counter that by saying that, one thing that you do incredibly well, and I've watched you do it over the years with countless patients, is every time you come out, you make us, feel like we're the only person that you're seeing that day. And I just wondered how intentional that is, or whether it's something you've kind of learned over time.

>> Omar Hilmi: When I'm with the patient, they're the most important person there. it doesn't matter about anything else that's going on is you've got to give the best of your ability to the individual patient. And people know sincerity or not, if you're not concentrating on them, if you're not devoting your time and attention to them at that point in time, they will pick up on it and they will respond badly. It makes my life so much easier to just be sincere and do my best for each person at each time. And, yeah, people. People deserve good health care and they deserve to be listened to. And I don't have all the answers. And I frequently tell people that I don't know why you've got this symptom, but I'm not worried about you or something like that, but I give them the best opinion that I can and I hope that, yeah, they do respond to that.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah. I mean especially those early, those early months. We have various conversations with various specialists and clinicians and people at Maggies and, and whatever. And I know that mine and Gemma's default was. Well, we'll wait to see what Mr. Hill me says because we know he's not going to pull any punches. He's just going to tell us straight down the line exactly what we want to know, good or bad.

>> Omar Hilmi: So yeah, the best of my ability, yes. I can't claim I always get it right, but you'll get the best opinion I've got at any given time, hopefully. Absolutely everyone in healthcare has their own opinions and not everyone's opinion can be correct all of the time. and this is why you. It's often easier to have one person to listen to because people come from things that slightly different ways and have subtly different opinions and that creates confusion. You know, if one person's saying one thing and one person's saying something else. Well, who do you believe? And a lot of problems in the health service are communication related of just too many opinions on a single subject. Some of whom will have a high level of knowledge, others will be coming at things from a slightly different perspective. Both can be right, but just confusing the issue in the long, run.

>> Lee Crontpon: And then you've got the patient in the middle who I'm talking more for myself in this instance, who as a little knowledge is dangerous. I mean, I mean I remember, I m. Remember when some of the first results came through and you're looking at TSH and T4 and decimal points and whatever and I'm like, I don't know what all this, what all this means. So you've got the patient in the middle who's maybe got a little bit of knowledge which just muddies the water even further.

>> Omar Hilmi: But yeah, it's. You don't want to dive too deeply into that at that stage. We've given you the news, we told you it was bad.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: You didn't need to know any more than that. And like I said, you've proved us all wrong, which is fantastic. You got lucky.

>> Lee Crontpon: I did get very lucky. I did get very lucky.

You suggested that I read Legend by David Gemmell when battling cancer

And one of that segues nicely onto another moment of ours, which is when you suggested that I read Legend by David Gemmell whilst I was in my lead lined room at the Beatson. Now, would you like to just briefly give an explanation as to why you thought that particular book might be of interest?

>> Omar Hilmi: Well, first of all, it was. It's a favourite of mine. I read it at medical school. First of all, was recommended to me by a very good friend of mine, a an anaesthetist who's unfortunately decided to go to Australia and works there, a guy called Pierre Bradley. And he said you've got to read this when I was in my training. And he was right. I love the book. It's a very simplistic book in a lot of ways. I mean it's not as complex as the more modern fantasy novels.

>> Lee Crontpon: I think it was out in the 80s. Quite old book now, isn't it? I think it was out in the 80s.

>> Omar Hilmi: Oh yeah, it is, absolutely. But it was written by David Gemmell when he had a health crisis. He had a cancer diagnosis and the premise of the storey is the defence of a fortress and there's overwhelming odds against it. And it was really him writing about his fight against cancer and he was the fortress and how he survived against overwhelming odds. And you need something uplifting when you're in the midst of any diagnosis of cancer. You need to think, okay, there's a way through. And yeah, I just thought it was a good one to read.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think it's something that resonated with me. It's something that I've always remembered and I guess coming back to you saying about you have to be honest with folk, but at the same time there's a balance, isn't there, between how much do people, how much do patients need facts and how much do they need something to hold on to?

>> Omar Hilmi: Absolutely.

>> Lee Crontpon: And there was that balance, wasn't there between. I've told you this news. But you might, you might enjoy reading Legend by David Gemmell because. Yeah, and I think he survived for many years afterwards, didn't he? I mean he did die of cancer I think in the end, but it was, it was years after that initial diagnosis.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah, I, I don't think he died of cancer ultimately. I think he actually died of a complication of surgery actually, which is probably not such a great.

>> Lee Crontpon: But yes, he survived that initial diagnosis

>> Omar Hilmi: and went to write many more books.

>> Lee Crontpon: Went on to write many more books.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yes.

>> Lee Crontpon: And that's what I learned for the first time. You're a fantasy fan, it's fair to say.

>> Omar Hilmi: Absolutely. Yeah. No, definitely. I love fantasy, novels and things like that.

Your youngest daughter wants to know what is your favourite film

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, here we go. So if you've listened to a couple of the other episodes, you'll know that I sometimes ask some hard hitting Jeremy Paxman type questions. I have one of those from my daughter.

>> Omar Hilmi: Okay.

>> Lee Crontpon: My youngest daughter, who. Erin, who was three, sorry, she was eight months old at the time was diagnosed. She is now the ripe old age of 6. And she would like to know, as I said, was going to speak to you tonight, she would like to know what is your favourite film. That's the most important question in her life. She wants to know, and I'm wondering, is it Lord of the Rings or similarly.

>> Omar Hilmi: No, it isn't. it's a difficult one. there's lots of films that I like. I'm gonna have to fall back to my default, which is Kelly's Heroes.

>> Lee Crontpon: Kelly series, which, again, I watched when I was in the lead line room, which was another recommendation from you.

>> Omar Hilmi: Absolutely.

>> Lee Crontpon: Hadn't seen it for years. Yeah, lovely.

>> Omar Hilmi: No, it's a good romp and, yeah, it's just completely silly, but, no, I do like watching Kelly's Heroes.

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, unfortunately, I don't have my copy of Kelly's Heroes anymore because, as you know, anything that goes into the leadline room in the Beatson doesn't come back out of the lead line room in the Beatson. So, it had to stay there for other patients to enjoy.

Has a patient ever surprised you with how they've reacted

Patients, reactions. Has. Has a patient ever surprised you with how they've reacted? Because, I mean, I know for. From my experience in that moment, as much as you say it was horrible to tell me in that moment, it doesn't really go in. Do you know what I mean? I didn't. I didn't leave that room thinking, oh, Jesus, I've got six months to live. It's just you're not. I remember. I remember, like, shaking my head a lot because it was like you're in a dream.

Have you had any strange reactions to bad news

So just wondered if you. Have you had any strange reactions to bad news?

>> Omar Hilmi: Everyone reacts to things in subtly different ways. I've never had any. What I would classify as bad reactions. Reactions are just their reactions, and you've got to accept that from people given the same circumstances. People can react in very different ways. But most people want to know, okay, this is what's happening. What are you going to do about it?

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah, yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: And this is the point, is that, no matter how bad things are with the diagnosis, generally speaking, we're always going to do something.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: You know, and you just concentrate on the small things that can get you further forward. I mean, in your case, we had the prospect of further surgery and further treatment. That was something for you to hold on to. It's Very rare that from first diagnosis something is completely incurable. It does happen sometimes. But even if something is incurable, there's ways of making life moving forward a little bit better. And that's where sort of palliative care and things like that come into it. But also palliative surgery, which people don't really recognise that much, but surgery can be done to. Not for curative reasons, but actually to make people's lives better. And we need to take a very holistic approach in that. So, yeah, I've never really had a. What I can say is a really bad reaction. I've had people who are really upset, I've had people who are really angry, but I don't regard those as bad reactions. They're just reactions and completely understandable.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's difficult in that moment to process. But like you say, there's all, there's always. And I think that's what I found easier. And it's all relative. But it was easier when you had a plan and you m. Go, right, in two days time, I'm having surgery, then I need to get better because I've got to get my injections before I go into the beats. And then there was a. And you're only looking like a day, two days, three days max ahead. Because looking at the bigger picture, you know, three months, two months, three months ahead. It was just too much of a head. I mean, it's just, you can't, you can't get your head around that. And I found it more difficult, I think, when I was out of the system. Okay, well what, what do I do now? Whereas other than having these short, like short term goals of. This is your appointment on Tuesday, you're doing this on Thursday, you've got that on Saturday. And you had that kind of, that consistency and that kind of, I don't know, distraction almost that you were in the, you were in the loop.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah. You're on the production line to get things sorted and then suddenly you come to the end of it and where do you go from now? Yeah, but of course, that is part of what we generally lay down with the diagnosis. The worst thing when you're giving a diagnosis is to say, well, we're not sure what they're going to do.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: And so, I mean, in my case, with the type of cancer that I'm dealing with, I can predict to people how we're going to go at any given step and I can map it out for them at that stage. And that I think is very Useful for people. So they know that there is a plan, they know what to expect and it makes it easier to take. But as you say, you come to the end of that and then suddenly, well, where do we go from here?

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: And the answer is, hopefully just continue as you're doing.

>> Lee Crontpon: Just carry on. Yeah, yeah. If you're lucky. If you're lucky.

>> Omar Hilmi: If you're lucky.

Is there or are there things that families ask that patients don't

>> Lee Crontpon: Is there or are there things that families ask that patients don't or vice versa?

>> Omar Hilmi: I'm going to revert back to my previous answer that every family and every person is an individual. M. You occasionally get family members who want to try and call you to one side and, you know, sort of level with me, doc, how long they really got. And the simpl answers we very rarely know.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: In worst case scenario, you can say, okay, well, in my experience, I doubt you're going to survive more than this length of time. But we can't give an exact. The one I hate is we don't want you to tell them because I can't agree to that.

>> Lee Crontpon: No, no.

>> Omar Hilmi: The patient has the right to all knowledge about what's happening with them. It doesn't matter what the family may feel is best for the patient, unless the patient turns around to me and says, I don't want to know, but I want you to tell X, Y or Z. My priority is to the patient and I've got to be open with them.

>> Lee Crontpon: yeah, it's been fascinating, actually, when I've been on the sort of, say, survival side of the fence, but still come around for appointments and just people watching in that room, because I'm very conscious of. Whilst I watch you and Leslie and Professor Reed interacting with the people, as you call them through and like you say, almost as if they're the only person they're seeing that day. I'm also conscious that I'm not too upbeat, I guess, because you don't know who else is in that waiting room and if someone else is in that waiting room in the position that I was in five and a half years ago, you know, you don't want, oh, hi, Mr. Hill. Me in a high five. And as you come down the corridor, I guess that moves on to the next question.

How do you flip from doing what you do in the day to going home

Is it, you know, you've. You've told somebody bad news, you've had your hands in their neck pulling bits and pieces about and then you go in for a fish supper. Surgeons must be a strange breed because how, how do you manage to do that? Is it. Can you manage to compartmentalise or. That's the crux of what I wanted to get you on is how do you flip from doing what you do in the day to going home?

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah, that's a really difficult one. You do have to very much compartmentalise it. I mean, I've got a policy. I want to sleep at night.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: Okay. So I don't want to be worrying about the decisions and the actions I've taken during the day. Which means that most of us are very obsessive, because I know almost all my colleagues are exactly the same. We're very obsessive about what we do. This is going to sound strange, but surgery is really good fun. It's a real challenge. You're going in to do something, you've got set goals, it's going to be a challenge on each time. There is a tremendous camaraderie in the theatre environment. You've got the anaesthetic staff, you've got the nursing staff, you've got everyone else. They're all working to do our very best for that patient. And there is a tremendous heme spirit associated with that. And to a certain extent, it almost dehumanises the situation. that's going to sound really weird, but, you know, you've not got direct interaction with the patient while you're operating.

>> Lee Crontpon: No.

>> Omar Hilmi: You've got your task, you've got your challenge and you want to achieve it. It's actually far more of a personal relationship in the outpatient clinic than it is when you're actually doing the surgery and you just learn to create those barriers. But that's a really tricky question to answer. I've not thought about it in that way before.

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, now I'm just thinking, you know, I presume, like you say, you must dehumanise it when you've got somebody. I mean, I couldn't. I mean, just the squeamishness of it, just regardless of anything else, the skill and, you know, experience of actually knowing what you're doing. Just the screaming squeamishness of. But then I suppose that dehumanises itself, because if you've got someone who lay in front of you who's, you know, completely out of it, like you say, it's not like you're having a chat with them whilst you do. I mean, that must be. I mean, that must be in some ways worse. If you've got someone who's got a local anaesthetic for some other procedure and you're having to talk to them and you know that they're awake whilst you're Trying to do whatever you're trying to do to them at least. You know, I'm. I mean, how long would I have been in for?

>> Omar Hilmi: It's one to two hours, I think. Right.

>> Lee Crontpon: But that is a lot. I mean, how many of those are you doing a day?

>> Omar Hilmi: Do about four or five a day.

>> Lee Crontpon: Again, for a concentration level. I mean, that's just.

>> Omar Hilmi: That's why surgeons retire. it's not. It's not the skill and things like that. It's the eyesight and the concentration, being able to maintain it. This is why people, give up, ultimately. But, yeah, no, I mean, it does take. It does take concentration, but you've got to remember that if you're doing it a lot, then you get very used to it.

>> Lee Crontpon: Muscle memory.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah, it's like any skill. I mean, you watch skilled plumber work, a skilled joiner work. You watch anyone who's doing something and doing it well, they get very quick at doing it and they've got them, as you say, muscle memory. And you just work through it. And probably. Yeah, at the time that we're doing surgery, we do compartmentalise the humanity side of things off and do the job in front of us.

>> Lee Crontpon: I've completely forgotten what I was going to ask.

>> Omar Hilmi: I have those moments sometimes as well.

>> Lee Crontpon: That's something you have on whilst you're doing surgery. What am I doing? Oh, yeah, And I've got to cut this.

>> Omar Hilmi: That doesn't happen during surgery, fortunately.

>> Lee Crontpon: yes, that's what I was going to ask.

Mr. Hilmi says he flies model aircraft and enjoys skiing

So, other than being a sci fi Nerd, what does Mr. M. Hilmi do to relax?

>> Omar Hilmi: I read, as you know. Yeah, I fly model aircraft.

>> Lee Crontpon: Okay.

>> Omar Hilmi: Not drones. Model aircraft.

>> Lee Crontpon: Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah, I do. I enjoy skiing. I go, walking. Just general stuff, nothing particularly special.

>> Lee Crontpon: Have you ever flown any of your model aircraft up, our, neck of the woods? Because there's always seem. There seems to be a cohort of people who, by. I think it's called Queen's View. By the Wangi on the stocky Muir Road. There seems to be a cohort of people who, when the weather conditions are right, always flying their model planes down the. Down the valley. It's not that.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yes, I am one of those people. Queens View. Yes.

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, there you go.

>> Omar Hilmi: Big shout out to Queen's View Model Flying Club.

>> Lee Crontpon: Is that what they're called?

>> Omar Hilmi: Yes.

>> Lee Crontpon: Is it?

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah. They've even got their own website.

>> Lee Crontpon: Wow. Okay. well, there you go. I've probably passed you many times going, look at, look at these cars parked

>> Omar Hilmi: Here, hooting your horn, saying, stopping the road up. Well, you should come down next time and say hello.

>> Lee Crontpon: I'll come down and say hello. Because it looks like there's a little path that goes down to, like, a. A green area in the middle.

>> Omar Hilmi: That's right. That's where we take off from.

>> Lee Crontpon: Right. Okay. Right. Well, there you go. That's something else. something else I've learned tonight.

>> Omar Hilmi: The Saturdays and Sundays, we'll look out for you.

>> Lee Crontpon: I'll come down, I'll bring you. Bring you a flask of coffee.

Mr Hill has written a play about getting diagnosed with thyroid cancer

I mentioned when I saw you last week that I've written a play called yes, Inevitable about getting my diagnosis. Clearly, as a major part of that storey you are in that play. I wonder how that felt from your perspective, being in somebody's storey in that way. And if it ever made it to stage. Would. Would you play. Would you consider playing yourself?

>> Omar Hilmi: well, the first thing to say is it's been a real honour working with you in your personal play, and I'm very glad it's got a happy ending. Would I consider playing myself?

>> Lee Crontpon: Well, the only reason, though, just jumping in that the only reason I say that is because I know I have on good authority that you have acting experience.

>> Omar Hilmi: Well, that was a long time ago. That was a long, long time ago.

>> Lee Crontpon: Would you like to share your singing experience? Acting and singing? I mean, you do all the ticking, all the boxes.

>> Omar Hilmi: I was fortunate enough to go to a school that had a very strong singing tradition in Hertfordshire, a place called St. Clement Danes. And there was a truly fantastic teacher there, Mr. Walters, who had a relationship with the Royal Opera House and by inference, also with various, film companies. And so occasionally we would go and sing in the Royal Opera House in various operas. And, I also had the opportunity to sing in Return of the Jedi as, ah, An Ewok.

>> Lee Crontpon: As an Ewok, yes. So, and am I right in saying that you sang at Darth Vader's funeral

>> Omar Hilmi: as an Ewok, Yes.

>> Lee Crontpon: As an Ewok, yes. Yeah.

>> Omar Hilmi: In the original. Not in the remastered. They've cut it from the remastered. But in the original. I know, Disgraceful. To be honest, it wasn't that great a song.

>> Lee Crontpon: I've told that storey to a few folk since I found out. And the first question that normally comes back is, Mr. Hill, me really short? I'm like, no, he was a child. He's not a very short man. But you're operating on me sort of with your.

>> Omar Hilmi: I was just singing. I wasn't acting. Bear that in mind. So did you meet M. Pinewood Studio

>> Lee Crontpon: anybody while you were doing it?

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah, we met George Lucas.

>> Lee Crontpon: Wow.

>> Omar Hilmi: Yeah, he was there. And we saw a brown out of the film before it was on general release. Just a bit that we were in. And we still weren't any wiser as to what was going to happen, but it was a nice experience.

>> Lee Crontpon: I bet it was. And so, as I say, you've got acting experience. It was like singing experience. So I'd say if it ever became a musical, then maybe I'll get back in touch.

>> Omar Hilmi: Well, best of luck with it.

>> Lee Crontpon: Thank you very much. Yes. I have sent it to my agent and it made her cry. And I actually sent it to my, I see a clinical psychologist Once a fortnight, Dr. Jan, who's been on the podcast before, and she cried as well and said her words were. She described it as, and m. I quote, beautiful, fantastic. We'll wait and see what happens with. With that. But, yes, there aren't many people who can. Who sound. I know you're gonna. You're gonna roll your eyes at this because you're a very humble man, but there are not many people who can say that they've had their life saved by an Ewok. You. You asked me when things were looking a bit more rosy, did I ever play the lottery? And I said, why? And you said, because you've got higher odds of winning the lottery than you have of beating anaplastic thyroid cancer. So, I mean, I was in a small minority group anyway, and then I think even in. In an even smaller niche to. To, Yeah, I've been. Been saved by Ewok. Who can say that?

>> Omar Hilmi: You go.

>> Lee Crontpon: Who can say that? Not many.

>> Omar Hilmi: This is true. This is true. You're in a very select group on that.

>> Lee Crontpon: Mr. Hill. Me. Thank you so much for giving up your time. That has been wonderful. Thank you for making my evening. Yes. Keep on keeping on because you are a remarkable human being.

>> Omar Hilmi: Thank you very much. And I must admit, m. I'm very humbled to have been invited to take part in this. I was a little bit trepidatious. Like I said to you before, I normally prepare for doing any presentation a long time, and I wasn't sure it was going to be, but it's been fantastic. Thank you so much for inviting me.